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The over-powered punches and kicks in the fight scenes were the only thing I really hated about it. They're not supposed to be SUPER super heroes - just people who dress up to fight crime.

Aside from that, I really think it's incredibly solid.

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Sequels and spin-offs are kind of missing the point, aren't they? That entire universe was cooked up to support a particular set of characters who said certain things about the superhero genre and Moore's own metaphysical and political outlook.

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The Silk Spectre series was one of the only good things about Before Watchmen. My favourite bit of absolutely staggering point-missing was the Rorschach mini-series, where he tries it on with a lady he meets. Someone interviewed Brian Azzarello, the writer, afterwards and it went something like:

INTERVIEWER: Why did you decide to have Rorschach make a pass at a woman? Isn't he a repressed homosexual with an almost uncontrollable loathing for women?

BA: Rorschach, gay? Hmm. I never really thought about it before, but I guess that makes sense.

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On 07/06/2005 at 18:45, biglime said:

Everything about this project screams "never getting made." (Thankfully.)

 

LOL

 

Anyway, what's everyone's opinion on the film a good decade later? 

I still think it's a masterpiece, despite (or, maybe, because) its changes to better suit the medium of film. Not saying the squid wouldn't have worked, but by tying the ending into how the existence of Dr. Manhattan was already a catalyst for the acceleration of nuclear war, the film found a narrative and tonal consistency that really made its message shine the way it did.

 

One of my favourite YouTube channels just did a reappraisal of its own, and I completely agree with it.

 

 

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It holds a special place in my heart because my wife and I saw it at a cinema in Carlisle in the first few months of being together in 2009. I also think it's a flawed masterpiece. I have no particular connection to the graphic novel so for me this is my Watchmen. I even bought the Tales of the Black Freighter DVD at the time and the original US Ultimate Edition Blu-ray set is still one of my most treasured possessions.

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I like it a lot.  It's no masterpiece but I think that it is probably the best it could have been, so I can't really criticise it for that.  It is massively uneven, with moments of real spectacle and others of accidental hilarity and performances from the brilliant to the wooden.

 

There was a certain section of toxic fans for who it was never going to be enough but that is because their fundamental objection was that the film existed.

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Yeah, the subtleties of just "who watches the watchmen" is completely lost in the film.

But the start is great, it just loses it's way and then theres no squid. Even the TV show had the squid.

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the lack of squid didn't bother me (uniting the world against Dr Manhatten is fine) but they completely botched the reveal. It should have been a legendary movie twist up there the sixth sense or whatever but it fell completely flat due to the bloodless and sterile nature way they did it. It's the one thing in the movie that SHOULD have been shockingly violent and it isn't. Useless

 

the dude has killed MILLIONS of people and it has significantly less impact that a single guy getting his arm broke in a stupid action scene.

 

8o9uI-YEZCWY3sir3ud7KOjihZIOcGDkVge2RLW-

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I used to think it was good, then these past couple of weeks I've been reading the graphic novel and last Friday decided to watch the film again as it's on Prime and holy fuck I now see what was so bad about it. Whilst it takes all the scenes from the novel (apart form some notable changes) the way it's presented is so unoriginal, like the Director had no vision of his own and just rips off other movies. I mean showing The Comedian killing in Vietnam to Ride of The Valkyries being one of the most obvious cliche rip offs, but yes also the lame slow mo ultra violence and shagging, the whole thing just felt completely tonally off compared to the tone of the novel which had this almost melancholic romantic tone along with the hard boiled noir elements of Rorsach's scenes. The TV Series got the tone far better I thought. I won't lie I was gutted, I couldn't even finish the last half hour and this was a film that years ago I really enjoyed, I guess reading the source material ruined it for me. I'd love to see a remake by either Lindlelof or someone like Villeneuve though I doubt that will happen seeing as it's already been done and that's why it feels like a missed opportunity.  

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12 minutes ago, Minion said:

Whilst it takes all the scenes from the novel (apart form some notable changes) the way it's presented is so unoriginal, like the Director had no vision of his own and just rips off other movies. I mean showing The Comedian killing in Vietnam to Ride of The Valkyries being one of the most obvious cliche rip offs,

 

There are two ways of looking at this.

 

Just as the novel contains a lot of homage and references to many other comics and novels, then homaging another film within the film is entirely consistent.  (Been a while since I've seen it, but there is a definite Mad Max reference as well.)

 

Or as I said earlier, that bit was rubbish but the opening sequence set to "The Times They Are A'Changing" is equally cliched but works brilliantly.  So Snyder veers wildly from great to bobbins.

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2 minutes ago, Plissken said:

 

There are two ways of looking at this.

 

Just as the novel contains a lot of homage and references to many other comics and novels, then homaging another film within the film is entirely consistent.  (Been a while since I've seen it, but there is a definite Mad Max reference as well.)

 

Or as I said earlier, that bit was rubbish but the opening sequence set to "The Times They Are A'Changing" is equally cliched but works brilliantly.  So Snyder veers wildly from great to bobbins.

 

That's a very good point I didn't consider that and yeah that first montage with the Dylon tune is probably the best bit of the film.

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5 hours ago, Plissken said:

There was a certain section of toxic fans for who it was never going to be enough but that is because their fundamental objection was that the film existed.

 

I'm not toxic, but that's pretty much my view. Watchmen is a comic to its bones and just doesn't work as a moving picture, especially such a slavish, po-faced adaptation. The suspension of disbelief required for a film is a whole different level than a comic. The gaps are filled in and they suck. Also Ozymandias was woefully miscast, he's a charisma vacuum in this. 

 

Loved the TV series though. 

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2 hours ago, Plissken said:

 

 

Or as I said earlier, that bit was rubbish but the opening sequence set to "The Times They Are A'Changing" is equally cliched but works brilliantly.  So Snyder veers wildly from great to bobbins.

 Could be wrong but I seem to remember that the intro sequence was completely outsourced to a production house (which is why it feel tonally more graceful than the rest of the film maybe?) 

 

Anyhow I both love and hate the film. Looks brilliant visually, but the script and story are charmless and idiotic. The end, imo, shows how much they misjudged the story as, arguably, Veidt was the hero (or at least the character with mission and purpose and logic on his side) where the film has him destroying half the world to save the other half. 

 

The directors cut has the single worst delivered line in any a list film I'm ever seen (where the knot tops say There's been a murder at the garage or something :) )

 

 

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It looks exactly how you'd expect a Watchmen movie should look, but if you keep looking at it for longer than a second it shows how little Snyder has understood the source text. As much as people say a film could never have worked, the TV series shows if you take the idea of a deconstruction of the super hero myth and what that actually means and put it up against modern society there's still room for new Watchmen and adaptations. 

 

I think now more than ever, with comic book movies being as big as they are, deconstructing the idea of them and what they actually stand for could work really well. Or, you know, just recreate every panel of the original and cut two of the characters fucking to Jeff Buckley. 

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40 minutes ago, Don Rosco said:

 

I'm not toxic, but that's pretty much my view. Watchmen is a comic to its bones and just doesn't work as a moving picture, especially such a slavish, po-faced adaptation. The suspension of disbelief required for a film is a whole different level than a comic. The gaps are filled in and they suck. Also Ozymandias was woefully miscast, he's a charisma vacuum in this. 

 

Loved the TV series though. 

 

The problem is that if they had gone full on doing a movie in the style of the comic (i.e filling the film with references to film folklore) then they would be open to criticism for deviating from the film too much.  In other words, it's simultaneously too slavish an adaptation and also ridiculous that they didn't do the squid.

 

This isn't calling you out, I hasten to add.  I definitely think that they were afraid to commit either way and ended up falling between both stools.

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1 minute ago, Plissken said:

 

The problem is that if they had gone full on doing a movie in the style of the comic (i.e filling the film with references to film folklore) then they would be open to criticism for deviating from the film too much.  In other words, it's simultaneously too slavish an adaptation and also ridiculous that they didn't do the squid.

 

This isn't calling you out, I hasten to add.  I definitely think that they were afraid to commit either way and ended up falling between both stools.

Or Snyder is a Randian loving hack who has no real understanding of the media he is consuming and converting into shit movies. 

 

Bar the opening 10 mins of the Dawn remake. I'll give him that and only that. 

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7 hours ago, Ste Pickford said:

I remain of the opinion that it's a film that never should have been made.  

The fact that some people only really know the film, not the book, just hammers this home for me.


How is this insinuated gatekeeping an argument against the film's creation, exactly?

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5 hours ago, c-cat114 said:

The end, imo, shows how much they misjudged the story as, arguably, Veidt was the hero (or at least the character with mission and purpose and logic on his side)

 

1. The film shows off this perceived heroism pretty damn decently as wel, with Dr. Manhattan eloquently agreeing with Veidt.

2. Veidt was never portrayed as the hero in the source material. Even saying 'arguably' is stretching it. The point was that the whole ordeal was so incredibly morally ambiguous and mechanically preposterous that it's almost impossible to judge whether it was good or not.

 

Unless, of course, one has a moral compass as black & white as Rorschach's, that is.  

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