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I still put a lot of the blame on latter era Wenger's zero conflict creche atmosphere where talented but nice chaps were bought thru and chosen and nasty bits of work with attitude to win and create a bit of friction were avoided at all costs at all ages of player.


We've changed the entire management structure, most of the coaches, only the players really remain at the core. That said loads of them have turned over too so its almost like the club ethos now has become engrained mental weakness and lack of desire to be coached or do the unpleasant parts of the game. 


We can manage it for the odd cup game or big match, but beyond that Arteta seems to be struggling to get a tune out of them, yet again. We can't become Leicester or the like and keep changing the manager when the players down tools, but reshaping squads of players is incredibly expensive so changing managers is often seen as the easier route - especially as there will always be somebody in line with a nice powerpoint presentation showing how they'd make the current squad win the EPL & CL within 3y for a negative net transfer spend. 

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This really needs time and patience (and some money).

We aren't going to spend £200mill in the next transfer window like Chelsea, City or Utd might so it's going to have to be done over the next two or three windows.

In the last window we brought in Partey and Gabriel, two fantastic signings. We need Arteta to be the constant here rather than bringing in another manager to hopefully get something out of the same players when most of them are clearly not top drawer and good enough.


How many of the current players could be in the squad say on matchday 1 of the 22/23 season? Sounds ages away but it’s only the season after next.

Maybe Leno, Tierney, Gabriel, Partey, Saka, Auba & Martinelli?

A couple of the youngsters or fringe players too maybe?


That's a hell of an overhaul that’s needed.


I know patience and football don't quite go together but at the moment we are expecting Arteta to work miracles with these players.

Before being judged he needs to at least say ok this is my team, my players and my system. Only then can we really judge him.

My money is on him making it work. 

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3 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

We are absolutely dismal. Even worse than I knew we would be. Just played straight into their hands.

We've been using this same game plan for YEARS. Getting hit on the break because our whole team is in the opponent's half is just what we do now.

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we remain utterly hideous to watch.


the parallels with Emery from Arteta are quite strong, started OKish with a visible attempt for the team to be trying to achieve what is asked of them, over scoring and under conceding xG resulting in a flattering run of results, then after 20 or so games everybody gives up on all that being coached rubbish and goes thru the motions whilst the stats catch up with the level of performance.


their second goal was just awful to see, schoolboy stuff with 7 outfield players up in/around their box, Partey wandering off the pitch and just 2 left back.


then there is the new 'tactic' of hoofing aimless crosses into the box when we have no target man - its like somebody read a stat that says on average you need 20 crosses to get a goal, so we just hurl in garbage balls thinking the 20th is bound to result in something.


I can't be arsed to watch us on Thursdays in the EL, it's almost reaching the point I'll not bother with the league games too.

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If Wenger was the master of freeform jazz-fusion football then Arteta has got our boys playing jug band thinking music. I don't think one dimensional even covers it anymore as that suggests at least one thing is working. Another huge irony is that it might actually work if we hadn't massively downgraded from Giroud, who can barely get a kick for Chelsea. I think Arteta is toast now anyway. Managers never turn it around from this.

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Things are pretty shit at the moment but it's really no surprise that we lost yesterday. Before kick off I hoped that the result would be one of those weird derby day results where form goes out the window but I really feared we would get a bit of a battering.


Getting rid of Arteta would be absolute madness at this stage.

Over the next 18 months or so we need to address the problems with the quality of players in our squad and not be looking at changing manager. Getting a new manager to work with these same players and expecting better results is just ridiculous.

Until we replace Bellerin, replace Xhaka, get a proper CB to partner Gabriel, get a creative CM or two to partner Partey and improve on, or improve, the likes of Laca, Pepe & Willian then this is pretty much it.

OK, we should still be doing a bit better than we are now but a lot of our players are simply not god enough.


All five of these players started yesterday.

Bellerin & Xhaka - Both are not good enough

Holding - Squad player

Laca - Not going to get much more than this from him

Willian - Looking like a very expensive mistake


Ozil is still a problem that isn't going to go away until he is no longer at the club. He's either pissed Arteta off big time or is being frozen out because of his political comments and refusing the pay cut. Still our most creative player but Ozil is not the answer or the future.


Until we can bring in reinforcements in January and next summer we might as well play the likes of Cedric, Mari, Luiz, AMN, Elneny, Willock, Smith Rowe, Reiss Nelson, Balogun and of course Martinelli when he's fit. Let's see what they've got and if and where they fit into the future of Arteta's team.


We need to get rid of the dead wood, and some who are not good enough, in the next two windows or so and bring in about five players. First 11 players.  

Like I've said before, we are not going to go out and spend £200mill in one go but with a few players gone and freeing up serious money from the wage bill, the club then needs to seriously back Arteta.  


It's doable and not every signing has to cost £50million+

How much did Hojbjerg & Doherty cost Sp*rs? These two have certainly improved them.


I like Lamptey from Brighton.


Buendia from Norwich?? I saw somewhere that last season in a struggling team he created the 4th most chances behind De Bruyne, Grealish and TAA. Also he put in the most tackles in the league out of all the attacking players.

Bissouma again from Brighton maybe??

I don't know much about both of these to be honest and I know stats are just stats but there are players out there. 

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Reiss Nelson, Wilock and Maitland Niles should all be given time in the league. They seem hungry when they get their chances on a Thursday. Move Maitland Niles in the middle and switch to a back three. 

Nelson has to be an improvement over Willian. 

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I think all three of them should be getting a lot of minutes now. They do try stuff that won't come off, but they're quick and unpredictable and do things with a bit of haste. I think Mourinho got a lot of credit yesterday for keeping the centre compact and letting us have it in wide areas, but equally I think if he'd doubled up on our wide players and forced us down the middle that equally would have been a credible approach. Our midfield has zero goals or guile in it and they could have the ball all day and not find a pass, but then we know this.


We've had 4 seasons of Xhaka now and we know him inside out. He's slow, can't pick a man out, can't shoot, is incredibly clumsy and has no awareness at all. But we've had three managers now who have him down first in the team sheet every week. It's not his fault we are where we are, but he's just an example of a player who's not going to produce different results or performances at this point, and there's probably another 10 in the same boat as him. Arteta isn't going to get those six new players he wants next month, or next summer either if we're being honest. He needs to find some solutions within the playing squad he has, and I'd start with choosing some different players to start next weekend. He won't get the sack as there's no-one to do it so we've just got to hope he finds a way out of this. The basement battle six pointer against Burnley would be a good start.

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All those players you're pointing out aren't good enough, the club knows. They've all been touted out the last few transfer windows but no other team is prepared to pay their wages, let alone add a transfer fee on top. Look at the Torreira situation, somebody still young and still with enough about him to make you think he could be a success at a decent club but it was a struggle to get him out the door on loan. It's become such an unattractive club due to the managers and the standard of players and the lack of European football that the signings are becoming even more desperate and the contracts even more eye-watering.


A new manager won't come in, because if they have something about them they'll refuse to work with this squad and the financial restraints caused by years of profligacy. If anyone joins, it will be another yes man who tells the owner he can work with these players and make them winners and so the cycle will continue.

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I mean it's pretty obvious that Arteta is just implementing Pep style tactics, but with vastly inferior players. TBH that's probably not the right tactic given the quality of the players, which is entirely down to how badly the club has been managed, cause they all earn a lot and none of them were particularly cheap. We do look more solid at the back and our pressing is better, but none of that really matters if we can't score. My real concern is results will keep going like this and the club will be forced to act, then we'll get in another manager and start all over again.

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there is a good piece on the Athletic today about crossing stats, and how you need to look behind just 'a cross' - one slung in from deep is pointless more often than not, its the byline pull backs and fizzed ones that are far more effective (no shit)


also there is a big difference in cross efficacy in teams that are leading or level to those chasing a game (and just slinging crap in the box like us yesterday)


its all fairly sensible and what you'd expect.


also its better to have players who like heading and jumping if you are going the high route like us yesterday. again no shit.

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(Let's ignore the fact the song is from 2009, Wrighty didn't join until 92 and the radio was more late 90s than 1990)


Moving on though, I know the opposition haven't been great in the Europa Cup but Arteta has to be giving some of those guys more chances in the first team, even if it's as substitutes for the time being. There's absolutely no reason AMN shouldn't be starting when compared to who's ahead of him in the so-called pecking order, Smith-Rowe could grow into a great option too and whilst Nketiah struggled at times at the start of the season his competition is Lacazette and I think we all know what we get from him now. It'd probably too early days for Balogun but, again, as an option from the bench, why not?


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You do have to wonder how long Arteta will keep trying the same XI (or in this case, X because Elneny is in for Partey) before he makes actual changes. At this point trying anything other than Xhaka + another static midfielder and Willian has to be a better option and I don't care how many cheeky little chips Willian puts away in training

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