Arsenal

[Rev]

Vela doesn't fit the 4-2-3-1 really. He'd do a lot better in a 4-4-2 variant I think.

----------------Song

-------Wilshere-Ramsey

Walcott--------------------Vela

---------------RVP---------------

Ace. (Traitors dismissed.)

[FATEone]

Hasn't shown anything when he was loaned out. Also if there was anything there surely AW would have seen it in training during the time he's been with us.

In the bits and bobs I've seen of him, he clearly has talent and potential. But when you're Arsenal, there's never really a time you can just throw him in for a run of games and let him try to find his feet without any pressure. You can't write someone off when they haven't had that chance.

[Rev]

Hasn't shown anything when he was loaned out. Also if there was anything there surely AW would have seen it in training during the time he's been with us.

He did pretty well with WBA last season.

[Lucky]

In the bits and bobs I've seen of him, he clearly has talent and potential. But when you're Arsenal, there's never really a time you can just throw him in for a run of games and let him try to find his feet without any pressure. You can't write someone off when they haven't had that chance.

Maybe that's fair enough, but then you've surely got to question the fact why he hasn't been able to force his way into the team in the 5 years or so he's been here.

[Lucky]

He did pretty well with WBA last season.

Did he really do that well?

I know he scored a couple of late goals for them, which obviously stood out as they were life savers, but how many games did he start. Not sure that he did do that well really.

Sturridge at Bolton did well. That's what you call going out on loan and then sending a message to your parent club.

[carlito]

He did nothing at West Brom!

[Rev]

It's not like he was a first-team starter, but when he was on the pitch he tended to do well. And he got them points singlehandedly.

If a player is good enough to be in the squad for 5 years he should be played and if he's not good enough for that we should have got rid of him 2 or 3 years ago.

[hercules]

Sadly Vela doesn't fit into our system and never gets game time either. He needs a strike partner to feed off and he needs a loan spell where he will actually play as sadly for him de matteo signed him then left west brom before he could play

[FATEone]

Maybe that's fair enough, but then you've surely got to question the fact why he hasn't been able to force his way into the team in the 5 years or so he's been here.

That's the thing though, he hasn't had an opportunity to force his way into the team. First of all he gets played on the wing, for 5 mins or so here and there, when he isn't a winger. Ok, I understand that plenty of players have staked their claims initially playing out of position, but he's a scorer, not really a creator. And Arsenal just aren't set up for him. He's all about pace and being direct. Arsenal, as we know, are not. People criticise Wenger for this and that, but the biggest fault of his is his tactical naivety. He only plays one way. Every now and then you'll try to become some sort of counter attack team, but it's few and far between, and only when you don't really have a choice.

Bendtner has had more than his fair share of chances. He's been played on the wing, but he's played as an out and out striker a lot as well. When a player gets countless chances laid on a plate, consistently misses said chances and then has some stupid fucking grin on his face about it, you can write that player off as a cunt.

Vela hasn't had those chances, and probably won't get them.

It seems that at Arsenal there is absolutely no pressure to work your balls off whilst you're training/in the reserves. Then you get a sniff of the first team, and when you see how much the fans want it/expect it, it seems to leave a lot of those kids shell-shocked.

I have this vision of Adams, Viera, Bergkamp, Pires, Keown, and the rest of that golden team running their own training sessions, and doing whatever they wanted, but having the discipline, sense of responsibility, and magic so it didn't really matter. Of course they're long gone, and the kids you've been left with have no-one left to bollock them when they need it.

[carlito]

Vela's could have all the skill in the world but it wouldn't change the fact he gets bullied off the ball way too easily and can be marked out the game by any half decent Premiership defender.

That just the way it is.

It's not Wenger, it's not the way we play, it's not anything else, it's just that.

[FATEone]

Vela's could have all the skill in the world but it wouldn't change the fact he gets bullied off the ball way too easily and can be marked out the game by any half decent Premiership defender.

That just the way it is.

It's not Wenger, it's not the way we play, it's not anything else, it's just that.

There is that. And yeah, that's what I'd say his main downfall is as well, but Benayoun used to be the same, and Shaun W-P is still the same.

EDIT: I'm not saying Arsenal should change their style of play to suit Vela, just saying sometimes you have to take everything into account before you brand someone a flop.

[carlito]

Completely different.

Firstly Benayoun has been quality for fucking years, peaks and troughs of form aside, I never remember a time when he failed to establish himself in games and SWP is just a complete confidence player, he more than capable to taking the game to the other team singlehandedly when he's feeling himself - or at least he was until quite recently.

Unlike those two, Vela just can't get into games unless the opposition let him. It's not just strength, it's guile, it's vision and it's a basic desire to make things happen and I think he's lacking, in varying degrees, in all of those.

[BlinkyBear]

Just watching YouTube clips of the boy Ryo. Fuck me he's got some real feet on him. Really wanted to see him play today but couldn't get the arsenal website to load to watch it which was a pain in the fanny. Hopefully it'll be ok for the game in China.

[Dude Ranch]

Hasn't shown anything when he was loaned out.

Did he really do that well?

I know he scored a couple of late goals for them, which obviously stood out as they were life savers, but how many games did he start. Not sure that he did do that well really.

He did nothing at West Brom!

I was calling for Wilshere to be back at Arsenal when he was at Bolton and was reminded that he'd not set the world alight up there and I more or less got laughed at. I'm not saying that Vela and Wilshere are on the same path but judging Vela on his time at West Brom is daft. Sure, he flatters to deceive and is a bit of a waster but when you see the talent and the goals he can score you do wonder. I think he needs a rocket up his arse and someone to tell him the score, in no uncertain terms. Or he might need an arm round the shoulder and a run of games. I don't know. I do know he has the talent, we need to find a way of getting it out of him.

[carlito]

Didn't you suggest getting Nasri out for Wilshire? Perhaps that was someone else - I remember bleating on at someone.

Carlos Vela must be at least 22 now. He's had several chances to get in the team and he hasn't done it - he's had at least 3 years of first team football on loan. His period at West Brom is far from all we have to go on.

He's been dining out on Carling Cup performances and chipping post-rout goals for too long. I just don't think he's got the grit to make in the Prem.

Maybe that'll change but I just get the impression he'd be happier dossing around La Liga where the closest defender to you in any given game is likely to be in Portugal.

[Rev]

This isn't really a dig at anyone, and lord knows rllmuk is better than most places, but I just don't like the constant whinging about peripheral players based on very little. Vela hasn't been given a proper opportunity, Arsenal are letting him down - he deserves to be playing regular football. There are first team players that are all but guaranteed a spot in the squad, eg. Arshavin, who have complained about being played out of position, don't fit into the system, are lazy, ineffective...Just because too much was paid for them. Arshavin probably had three good matches last season, if that - Vela didn't get that much football at Arsenal. He went to a club selected by one manager, then played for another and scored goals for an average team in crucial matches in the Premier League. Being stood in front of the Arsenal team against Wolves is a good deal easier than being stood in front of the WBA team - Arsenal will give you more chances. BBC summaries:

"And Andrey Arshavin should have made it 2-0 but failed to properly connect with a corner that evaded Hennessey, the Russian sending his volley wide of the gaping goal."

And:

"But at the death, Vela followed up a Wayne Hennessey fumble to earn a draw."

Give the lad a proper chance. If he does nothing, get rid of him.

[Dude Ranch]

Didn't you suggest getting Nasri out for Wilshire? Perhaps that was someone else - I remember bleating on at someone.

Yeah, you bleated on at me, as I recall. Wrongly. I mentioned half a dozen creative players at Arsenal and said Wilshere could fit in somewhere. You snorted that someone said 'Nasri out Wilshere in. Ha ha. Some people '. And how Wilshere had one assist in seven games in three months at Bolton or whatever. I didn't specify him as a direct replacement for Nasri. As it turns out though..

But overall, Vela and Bendtner are the same. Ish. Not really given a chance, rate themselves highly and ultimately probably not good enough. I'd like both to have a run but when do you take that chance? Bendtner is/was ahead of Vela in the pecking order and he's off so what chance Vela? We could sell him tomorrow and I wouldn't be fussed. Bendtner I'd rather stayed especially since Chamakh looked like he could hardly give a fuck today, pre season friendly not withstanding. And the body language off Nasri looked a bit dodge to say the least. Jack put himself about though, he's my favourite .

[Art Vandelay]

Sneijder has apparently agreed terms with Man Utd and Modric has submitted a written transfer request, paving a move to Chelsea. Started to get a little concerned that our band of little guys that might could start to look a bit ordinary next season. It would be difficult to suggest that Utd haven't utterly blown the bag doors off this summer. I mean, how are we meant to compete against a team that wins the league then spends £100m?

[Rev]

Playing football after February would be a start.

[toythatkills]

I mean, how are we meant to compete against a team that wins the league then spends £100m?

Don't sell Bendtner

[carlito]

Proved right! You obviously meant get Wilshere in as a defensive midfielder at the time right? Haha. Brilliant!

Did Wilshire even score a goal last season? Can't have got many if e did. Wikiwikiwiki.

Rev - Vela just hasn't ever looked ready for competitive Prem football. He's had plenty of opportunity it's just that up until now he just hasn't looked like he's got it in him. Nothing to do with "getting chances". Let's hope he turns a corner, but nothing suggests he will.

Aliadiere springs to mind.

[carlito]

Also Vela and Bendtner te same?

What? Bendtner went on loan and smashed it. Bendtner also scored plenty of crucial goals right when we needed them. Huge goals.

Not Carling Cup chips at 6 nil up.

[Mars]

From Arseblog:

"And if you're a football team and you're a bit rubbish and would like

to learn how to give away four goal leads, lose cup finals to twats,

concede goals from every corner you face and also beat Barcelona,

then perhaps a training day at Arsenal would be just the thing for

you."

[SeanR]

I mean, how are we meant to compete against a team that wins the league then spends £100m?

Spend the same £100m cloning Eboue?

[Dude Ranch]

Well, if United do indeed spend another £35m plus £200k ish wages then it's completely mad and you have to shake your head and wonder what the fuck is going on but at the very least it shows the ambition of the Club. We'll never do that all the time we have the current board and Wenger at the helm, we might be destined to be also rans but ultimately we're probably the most sane mind in the asylum. What do you want? 6% buys you fuck all these days.

[Rev]

Also Vela and Bendtner te same?

What? Bendtner went on loan and smashed it. Bendtner also scored plenty of crucial goals right when we needed them. Huge goals.

Not Carling Cup chips at 6 nil up.

It's kinda hard to score crucial goals when you're not on the pitch.

[Daley]

Well, if United do indeed spend another £35m plus £200k ish wages then it's completely mad and you have to shake your head and wonder what the fuck is going on but at the very least it shows the ambition of the Club. We'll never do that all the time we have the current board and Wenger at the helm, we might be destined to be also rans but ultimately we're probably the most sane mind in the asylum. What do you want? 6% buys you fuck all these days.

I must be getting old or perhaps it is just following Arsenal but it seems like every transfer window is more insane than the last. £20m for Downing? He is a decent player but wut? Real Madrid signed a full back for €30m and people were falling over themselves in the football thread to tell me what a good deal it was.

Either we are behind the times or everyone has gone crazy.

[Art Vandelay]

I've got a horrible feeling we're hoping that with our robust finances we'll start to stroll past teams with billionaire benefactors when they're shackled by the fair play regulations. The issue there of course is that these regulations are unlikely to be worth the air they were uttered into. Even when our ground is paid off and commercial deals are renegotiated there's simply no way we'll even consider paying the going rate in both wages and transfer fees required to attract the sort of players someone like Utd have. The stark and incredibly sad reality is that running a proper business doesn't seem compatible with running a football team that can win the Premiership.

[phresh]

Well, if United do indeed spend another £35m plus £200k ish wages then it's completely mad and you have to shake your head and wonder what the fuck is going on but at the very least it shows the ambition of the Club.

It's probable that we will see a couple more players leave United and the £80 million we received for Ronaldo has still been largely unused (transfer spend in the last few seasons has been a fairly normal £20 - £30 million excluding sales). With Brown and O'Shea gone (along with VDS, Scholes and Neville) we've also shifted a bit from the wage bill so a few new players probably won't make much of a difference.

[bowser123]

Don't agree with the talk that signing Sneijeder is craziness nor that it's impossible for a properly run club to win the league. United are the best run footballing business, something their balance sheet attests to.

The club run at wages being at 50% of turnover and signing him won't change that. The club has shed 5 players who will all be on very high wages in Brown, O'Shea, Hargreaves, Neville and Scholes. I bet they where each on 60/70/80/90K a week which gets you to 350K very easily.

The new players will be on the same amount but at the 50/60K end, with Young being higher. Jones is quite probably on less but there'll be scope for a renegotiation ala Smalling. Throw in the 200K for Sneijder and it's broadly the same amount as what has been saved from the departures. Gibson will almost certainly leave and I don't think he'll be the last with Kusack another almost certainly gone. Throw in the raise Chico got and I'd confidently bet that the three new signings+Sneijder+Smalling/Chico raise= broadly the same amount in wages as last year, which like I say, was 50% of turnover.

The actual transfer fee is covered by the amount the club published in it's accounts as sat in the bank, which is basically the Ronaldo money plus other profits. That amount stands in excess of £180M.

Personally I'm not so sure United will get the player despite all the talk, but there is easily enough to fund a move for somebody like him, Modric or Nasri.

Edit- and in the time I spent typing that Phresh got in and said the same. Doh.