Zelda: Twilight Princess

[Hewson]

It isn't shit, it just loses much of it's appeal once you've explored it for a few hours. Nothing ever changes in it, and once you've uncovered a dozen of those little caves that just hold rupees which you can't even collect you start to lose the will to keep exploring.

I agree that the "rewards" often disappoint, but again, some of the actual "doing" in the overworld is pretty rewarding in itself.

I do think that one of the first things to go if they ever do an RE4 style grand revision of the franchise, should be the current Rupee system. At the very least give us somewhere to store our rupees, and things to spend them on.

That's exactly the problem with this Zelda. It's always been a minor irritant in the past, but this time out I seemed to be constantly staring at that screen which tells you you're unable to pick up the rupees so you have to put them back in the chest. As MID says, that really buggers up the reward situation when exploring. To be honest, next time out they should either get rid of rupees altogether or make sure there's something worth spending them on.

I did love the game overall, though. I finished it last night and, as usual, the ending is fabulous. Midna, in particular, is a brilliant piece of work.

[Hawkeye]

I do think that one of the first things to go if they ever do an RE4 style grand revision of the franchise, should be the current Rupee system. At the very least give us somewhere to store our rupees...

They did do that in MM right enough.

Rupees seem very easy to come across in this version. Something like the bank system they used in MM, or no limit to the amount yuou carry would be a good idea. I'm not as far in as most but as yet I don't see anything particularly cash intensive. I just wonder if this is over compensatiting for all the moaning from those who had none when it came towards the end of WW.

EDIT: I agree about Midna Hewson. It's probably the first time there's ever been an in-tow side character that hasn't made me want to cut them up in to tiny little bits within the first few minutes. Although that may be helped by the lack of voice acting.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

One of the stupidest points I found in the game was (room before final boss spoiler)

the locked room just before the Zelda fight. By the time I went through it I had only opened about three of them because the majority were fucking rupees that I had no need for, including a silver rupee which I hadn't even seen before. Why on earth would I need all of that before the final boss? It was ridiculous.

[Davros sock drawer]

I liked the bank in MM, but again there was nothing to buy.

There are a few big spends you need to make, and there is also a way to make sure you pick up all the rupees you find, but it's a silly solution that I only use because I'm anal.

If I have 1,000 rupees already and I find 100 rupees in a chest, I put on the Magic Armour until I've used 100 rupees up, and empty the chest

One of the stupidest points I found in the game was (room before final boss spoiler)

the locked room just before the Zelda fight. By the time I went through it I had only opened about three of them because the majority were fucking rupees that I had no need for, including a silver rupee which I hadn't even seen before. Why on earth would I need all of that before the final boss? It was ridiculous.

To give you as many rupees as possible for the Magic Armour, if you're really crap at the game? I agree though, absolutely pointless. I went into the final battle with 1,000 rupees, 3 Fairies, 1 bottle of Fairy's Tears, and 20 Hearts. If it wasn't for my inability to work out the first phase of Zant's attack, I doubt I would have used any of it.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

Actually, part of me wishes they would sort of take it in the direction of something like PSO. Obviously I don't mean making it online multiplayer, but just giving you some more depth in customising Link, letting you pay to upgrade skills or equipment. Even paying for cosmetic upgrades would be nice.

Actually, fuck it - how amazing would a PSO style MMO set in Hyrule be? They should do that.

[Majora]

I'm sure past Zelda games used to drain your rupees more because the mini games were harder and typically cost more. Didn't archery cost 50 in OOT or am I imagining it? And it took me quite a few goes, whereas in TP a few were free, at most they cost 20, and they were all easy.

I think rupees were important in MM because when you returned to the first day you lose all your bombs and stuff, and it's easier just to go and restock at the shop than trying to find them in the grass.

[Hawkeye]

Actually, part of me wishes they would sort of take it in the direction of something like PSO. Obviously I don't mean making it online multiplayer, but just giving you some more depth in customising Link, letting you pay to upgrade skills or equipment. Even paying for cosmetic upgrades would be nice.

Actually, fuck it - how amazing would a PSO style MMO set in Hyrule be? They should do that.

I would hate that myself. A big no to anything online. I'd rather earn the items through the quest as you tend to do more often or not in Zelda games, and I've never been remotely interested in customising anything gaming related. If I get a new item of clothing I expect it to have some sort of function to help me complete the game, not to just look pretty.

If anything I'd have less money available and only small things like mini-games and potions should be available to buy. Everything else, the important items, would be gathered on your quest.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

I would hate that myself. A big no to anything online. I'd rather earn the items through the quest as you tend to do more often or not in Zelda games, and I've never been remotely interested in customising anything gaming related. If I get a new item of clothing I expect it to have some sort of function to help me complete the game, not to just look pretty.

If anything I'd have less money available and only small things like mini-games and potions should be available to buy. Everything else, the important items, would be gathered on your quest.

I sort of agree. I'm not suggesting that major items and abilities would be sold to you rather than earned, just an expansion on what they've already done in TP with things like

the zoom for the bow and the magic armour

And a Nintendo made Zelda MMO spin off would be fucking amazing and everyone knows it.

[Davros sock drawer]

Why not just vary the type of things you find in a chest? Like when you're fishing, and you pull up a twig, or a boot, or a bag of rupees. I liked that, because it added an element of surprise which rendered the exercise worthwhile.

As it is, whilst I enjoy hunting them out, I'm doing it out of an obsessive completist streak, and I guess because I enjoy working out how to get to them, rather than what's actually in the chests.

I dunno, you could have a series of collectibles in each chest. A bunch of flowers, a comedy tache, whatever. Anything but another poxy 100 rupees!

[bcass]

As much as I hated leaving chests full when my wallet was full, it is quite nice going back through the dungeons once you've completed the game, scouring the rupees you missed. There are at least a couple of places where vast amounts of rupees are required too. I'm doing this at the moment, and I've just amazed myself that there are a few dungeons where I hadn't even found the maps first time through.

[superpretend]

Where do you get a bigger wallet anyway? I got one upgrade from bug girl, but that's it. 600 rupees is rubbish. Especially if you spend all your rupees before Dungeon 7, like I did.

[Davros sock drawer]

Where do you get a bigger wallet anyway? I got one upgrade from bug girl, but that's it. 600 rupees is rubbish. Especially if you spend all your rupees before Dungeon 7, like I did.

You get one which can hold 1,000 rupees for finding all the bugs. Of course, by then, you don't really need all those rupees, but it's handy for The Cave of Ordeals

[Steven]

As much as I hated leaving chests full when my wallet was full, it is quite nice going back through the dungeons once you've completed the game, scouring the rupees you missed. There are at least a couple of places where vast amounts of rupees are required too. I'm doing this at the moment, and I've just amazed myself that there are a few dungeons where I hadn't even found the maps first time through.

That's really what it needs - a monster fish hidden in one of the bodies of water, chests containing lures of varying quality - just something with a bit more imagination.

[Chosty]

That's really what it needs - a monster fish hidden in one of the bodies of water, chests containing lures of varying quality - just something with a bit more imagination.

Ooo, the lures idea is very nice. Find a better one to hook the larger, rarer fish.

[bcass]

I thought the fishing was a bit of a missed opportunity. There are loads of little pools of water spread around the whole of the map, but they almost all contain exactly the same fish.

[Steven]

Ooo, the lures idea is very nice. Find a better one to hook the larger, rarer fish.

And how difficult would it have been to stick in? You could get clues as to where things are from animals populating the field - it would give me a bit more incentive thinking there could be something decent I hadn't found. As it stands, I intend to finish it tonight and probably won't play it again.

[Number 28]

Yup. The fishing journal icon is a book. By definition it should have more than one page. 'Fishing leaflet' it should be.

Is there actually six fish? It looks like there should be, but i've only found five - Hyrule Bass, Hylian Pike, Ordon Catfish, Greengill, Reekfish.

All this lure talk...you're taking the piss right?

[Zathras]

It would have been great if Hyrule field had some sort of huge "macro" level puzzle. Getting some cool reward this way instead of just amassing a shit load of rupees, which is a bit dull.

[scottcr]

right - I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to say this game is 10 material. It's fantastic.

We're jaded old gamers who've maybe played Zelda games before, there's enough surprises and nostalgic moments in there to make it a truly awesome game even for us (this is easily the best game I've played in years)... however...

put yourselves in the shoes of someone who's never played a Zelda game before - you're a 10 year old kid who's got a Wii and its your first Nintendo console, or your an older gamer who hasn't had a console for years and you never played TooT.

I know people in these exact positions and this is the first time they've played Zelda... and they are all loving it. Stuff that we take for granted is stuff they've never done or seen before and, in a way, I'm almost envious of them.

Seriously, and you know I'm a bit of a Nintendo fan anyway, but if I hadn't played tOoT, this would be the best game I've ever played.

[Steven]

Yup. The fishing journal icon is a book. By definition it should have more than one page. 'Fishing leaflet' it should be.

Is there actually six fish? It looks like there should be, but i've only found five - Hyrule Bass, Hylian Pike, Ordon Catfish, Greengill, Reekfish.

All this lure talk...you're taking the piss right?

Yes, you can get them -but they're all in one place, really - not really much incentive to scour the overworld.

[R0b]

I played OoT today... I've heard claims that the animation in that game are superior to the ones found in TP...

I offer a big fat LOL to those people.

TP really has inherited some of the glorious fluidity of TWW in it's control, hasn't it? It's that polish that makes me appreciate it all the more.

OoT would be better in TP's skin, but as it stands, TP is the better game in my opinion. It shows OoT's age. Which was always going to happen.

TP>OoT.

[scottcr]

I agree... TP>OoT.

However, it's not such a genuine OMFG moment in gaming history.

What all the Zelda games have shown though is that no one comes close to being able to do this stuff just quite as well.

Also, gimme the fantastic worlds of Hyrule any day over the bland medieval Britain look of Oblivion.

[R0b]

However, it's not such a genuine OMFG moment in gaming history.

No it's not, and I think that's what influences a lot of people in their decision. Of course everyone has different preferences, and no-one is wrong.

.

[Jarik]

Does anyone think the Zelda series needs to sort out it's chronology, or is it OK that it plays it a little fast & loose as to which one is set before/after another & even if they are the same world at all?

I liked the references to OoT that Twilight Princess (& Wind Waker) make, but (TP story spoilers)...

The Ganon in TP dosent seem to be the same Ganon as from OoT, as if he was, surely would have been some references to his defeat at OoT Link's hands & he should reckognise the Master Sword.

And then there was the Skull Kid. Same one?

There was also the appearance of the Temple of Time. Very Similar to it's OoT appearance & with that music but no explanation given as to what it's appearance (or reappearance if you played OoT) represented. As soon as it appeared I was hoping that more would be made of this place in the story, & it not doing so was very unfulfilling for this OoT fan.

[Steven]

no-one is wrong.

That's true. But you're among the 'not right' when you say TP>OOT.

[Cyhwuhx]

.::: Gameplay wise it's miles above OOT. The combat, the flow, the mechanics. Delightful.

But OOT definitely had the better 'story'. I say this lightly as how the story was presented in OOT bordered on the abysmal for me. But it was the idea of an origin-story that made it special.

A combination of OOT and TP would have been the best Zelda. Timing or not.

Unless those rose-tinted glasses are welded against your head of course.

[Number 28]

Yes, you can get them -but they're all in one place, really - not really much incentive to scour the overworld.

Oh right, I see what you mean now. I thought you were being sarcastic because all that stuff is there, but you're saying you want it all over the place. I agree, that'd be a lot better.

[R0b]

A combination of OOT and TP would have been the best Zelda.

OoT would be better in TP's skin

Couldn't agree more.

[Steven]

.::: Gameplay wise it's miles above OOT. The combat, the flow, the mechanics. Delightful.

But OOT definitely had the better 'story'. I say this lightly as how the story was presented in OOT bordered on the abysmal for me. But it was the idea of an origin-story that made it special.

A combination of OOT and TP would have been the best Zelda. Timing or not.

Unless those rose-tinted glasses are welded against your head of course.

I was taking the piss.

But I'm right. And you are wrong.

[Broker]

Does anyone think the Zelda series needs to sort out it's chronology, or is it OK that it plays it a little fast & loose as to which one is set before/after another & even if they are the same world at all?

I liked the references to OoT that Twilight Princess (& Wind Waker) make, but (TP story spoilers)...

The Ganon in TP dosent seem to be the same Ganon as from OoT, as if he was, surely would have been some references to his defeat at OoT Link's hands & he should reckognise the Master Sword.

And then there was the Skull Kid. Same one?

There was also the appearance of the Temple of Time. Very Similar to it's OoT appearance & with that music but no explanation given as to what it's appearance (or reappearance if you played OoT) represented. As soon as it appeared I was hoping that more would be made of this place in the story, & it not doing so was very unfulfilling for this OoT fan.

Various theories on this, many people like to think that Zelda is the same story told over and over, slightly differently, many retellings of the legend. Which is a nice idea but TPs refernces to the ancient hero in clothes like Links which suggests it is in the future of Hyrule and it's close association to OOT would certainly seem to suggest it was the same Hyrule. WW directly references OOT and its setting seems to be after a great cataclysm in Hyrule placing everything underwater.

Gamtrailers did a good piece about it recently, with the basic idea being that at the end of OOT two split timelines were created, one where Link returns to being a child, meets zelda and they know each other as children, and the world he left behind in ruins which has the adult Zelda who disguised herself as Shiek and no Link.

Following on from this they theorise that the subsequest games fit into one of the two timelines, with minish cap being the only one set before oot and ages and seasons taking place at the same time but in the two different timelines.